Last Day Of Testimony Was Microcosm of the Whole Trial

In General

{Editor’s Note: This post is a combination of the onsite reporting of Dianne Lipson and K.R. Claviger’s review of today’s  testimony]


Today, as noted in an earlier post, was the last day of testimony in the trial of Keith Alan Raniere AKA The Vanguard AKA Master AKA Grandmaster (Raniere was dressed today in a royal blue sweater over a light blue shirt, one of the numerous mix-and-match outfits he has sported throughout the trial).

Fittingly enough, the day played out like the Cliff Notes version of the entire trial.

When today’s session started, Michael Weniger was back on the witness stand answering questions from the lead prosecutor, AUSA Moira Kim Penza.

The Smartest Man In The World? – Not So Much
Weniger began by reviewing a copy of Raniere’s academic transcript from RPI.

In addition to noting that Raniere was once placed on academic probation because of his low grades, Weniger went on to read off some of his grades in specific classes:
– Advanced Ordinary Differential Equations: F
– Quantum Mechanics: F
– Theoretical Physics: F
– Experimental Physics: D

Now, we know why The Vanguard went to work for a New York State agency when he graduated from RPI.

Having excelled in both, Raniere is the now role model for all student-athletes at RPI.


Videotape Of Sarah Edmondson’s Branding
Next, Weniger noted that a videotape of Sarah Edmondson’s branding had been leaked to media outlets in Mexico – and was being shown on television there.

Sarah Edmondson

Raniere’s lead attorney, Marc Agnifilo, immediately objected – and, after a brief sidebar conference, the topic of Edmondson’s videotape was dropped.


The Vanguard Helps To Convict Himself
When testimony resumed, Weniger testified about the content of one of NXIVM’s higher-level courses entitled “Human Experiment”.

He began by noting that “As you move up [in NXIVM’s curriculum], the rhetoric…appears to be more misogynistic and there’s a great deal of sexual overtone”.

Then, the prosecution played portions of a videotape in which Raniere made several very revealing statements about his views on sex.

Another splendid work of art by MK10ART. “He is Your Vanguard.”

Among Raniere’s statements on the videotape that seemed to catch the attention of the jurors were these gems:
– Some women are able to release all of their stored-up tension when they are raped;
– A “certain percentage of women” have orgasms when they’re raped;
– Some women experience their first-ever orgasm during the course of being raped; and
– Many women report “an unexpected experience of freedom” during a rape.


Nancy Salzman Contributes To The Vanguard’s Demise
But Raniere didn’t limit his profound pronouncements to women and rape.

Nancy Salzman

Next up were his views on children and sex – which were part of a module entitled “Abuse, Rights and Injury” that was taught by Nancy Salzman during a meeting of Jness (Jness is the curriculum that teaches that women are naturally monogamous while men are naturally polygamous – which just happens to be the lifestyle that Raniere preferred).

And, once again, the videotape of Nancy expounding on Raniere’s did a nice job of summarizing what a total sleazeball he is.

These are some of his more notable thoughts on those topics:
– Some children mature at an earlier age than others – and are mentally capable of having sex with adults without experiencing any psychological harm;
– It’s “society” that considers sex between an adult and a child to be abuse;
– There is no harm if an adult parent has sex with a child and the child enjoys it?”;
– “In some parts of the world, the age of consent is 12”; and
– “An adult and child are having sex. What’s the difference between the child being tickled and the child being stimulated?”.

Raniere is known to have fathered at least two children: Gaelen and Kemar. Fortunately, he was separated from both of them before he was able to put his philosophies about children’s sexuality into practice with them (Gaelen’s mother fled with him – and Raniere was arrested only a few months after Kemar’s birth).


The End Is Near
Following a relatively brief and uneventful cross-examination by Marc Agnifilo, Weniger stepped down from the witness stand

At that point, Moira Kim Penza stood up and announced: “The prosecution rests”.

All eyes in the courtroom immediately turned to the defense table where Raniere and his lead attorney, Marc Agnifilo, were engaged in a whispered conversation.

[Earlier in the day, Agnifilo made a motion that the indictment be dismissed because the prosecution had not proved any of the charges beyond a reasonable doubt. The motion was immediately denied by Judge Garaufis].

MK10ART’s portrait of Marc Agnifilo

In response to the judge’s inquiry, Agnifilo announced: “The defense rests”.

The judge then asked Raniere a series of questions to ensure that his decision not to testify on his own behalf was well-documented for the expected appeal if Raniere is found guilty.

Raniere responded, “I do, your honor” to each such question – and, just like that, the major portion of the trial was over.

Next up will be a meeting tomorrow morning between the prosecution attorneys, the defense attorneys, and the judge to finalize the wording of the judge’s charge to the jury.

After that, closing statements will take place on Monday.

Each side indicated it will take about 4 hours for their closing statement – which means that the judge will formally charge the jurors on Tuesday and turn the case over to them.

One of the complicating factors at this point in the trial is that two of the jurors are scheduled to be on vacation during the week of June 23rd (The judge previously indicated that he would allow them to adhere to their plans).

What that means is that if the jury doesn’t reach a verdict by Friday, June 21st, two of the alternates will be subbed in for the vacationing jurors – and the deliberations will have to start all over again (The alternates are not allowed in the jury room unless/until they officially replace one of the regular jurors).

MK10ART – Keith Raniere before the jury.

So, can anyone guess when the jury will reach a verdict in this case?

I’ll take late morning or right after lunch on Friday – which will make it the second Good Friday on my 2019 calendar.

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108 commentsOn Last Day Of Testimony Was Microcosm of the Whole Trial

  • Girl Scout Cookies

    By now, Keith is most likely being guided back to his little cage at MDC. Perfect.

  • Verdict comes in Tuesday or Wednesday next week.

    Fast… Just like the El Chapo trial.

  • It’s far better fitting than Vanguard. I wonder if he is at all embarrassed or ashamed of his deplorable actions now that they have been made known to the public? Separately, I would love to hear Frank’s experience of being in court the other day. Did Vangone realize Frank was in the gallery?

    • I’ll leave it to Frank to respond to your question about Vanguard. But, just to tease it a bit, let me say that Vanguard’s eyeglass prescription may not be as bad as I’ve been told.

      • Krclaviger,

        Bless your soul for mentioning the occurrence. I wait with baited breath…..

        …….It’s a Hollywood Movie scene.

        Or the crescendo of play.

        The best part is Frank walked out of the Federal building a free man and returned home that evening….

        …….. And the Vanguard went back to the MDC for his body cavity search.

  • The defense apparently is relying on the good faith argument. Good luck demonstrating anything like good faith from this loathsome man who is the personification of bad faith. The fisherman argues good faith to the fish, because he offered them juicy worms to eat. Disregard the fact that the worms concealed hooks. But, the fisherman argues, it’s actually good for the fish to end up in the fisherman’s frying pan. They actually enjoy it, he argues.

    The defense argument is absurd. It is hopeless. I’d wager the guilty verdict will come within a couple of hours, and most of that time will be the jury members folding paper airplanes, killing time to make it look good.

    • — and most of that time will be the jury members folding paper airplanes, killing time to make it look good.


  • – Advanced Ordinary Differential Equations: F
    – Quantum Mechanics: F
    – Theoretical Physics: F
    – Experimental Physics: D

    How the Devil did that D get in there?

  • Videotape Of Sarah Edmondson’s Branding

    “Next, Weniger noted that a videotape of Sarah Edmondson’s branding had been leaked to media outlets in Mexico – and was being shown on television there. Raniere’s lead attorney, Marc Agnifilo, immediately objected – and, after a brief sidebar conference, the topic of Edmondson’s videotape was dropped.”

    MY QUESTION: Who leaked it to Mexican media?
    During the trial I don’t recall anyone saying any collateral was released.
    The branding technically isn’t “collateral” but……….
    This seems like an issue relevant to the trial.

    • I’d like to know what the objection was for – besides it being obviously bad for the defense – and why it was sustained in a legal justification after it took a sidebar for this to happen.

      • Several government officials apparently believe that the videotape was released as a warning to other former DOS members who had not yet testified when the tape was released. Given that there’s currently no proof of that, I think Judge Garaufis was just being cautious in cutting off discussion about the videotape. And it’s not like the prosecution needed any more evidence to prove its allegation that NXIVM is a criminal enterprise.

        • kr Claviger – how do you know this? Is what is said in a closed sidebar released on the transcript? If so can you provide more detail please?

        • Intimidating a federal witness then? When will the charges be filed? Or was it leaked from the Mexico branch of the cult?

        • Well actually, they do need more evidence…The file is quite empty and except a few explosive proves(cami’s pics)…
          If the other defendants didn’t pleaded, it would not be that great. Especially Lauren who’s testimony is an important key to this trial.
          But will it suffice?

  • “royal blue” – How fitting for the Vanguard.

  • In anticipation of the vindication of her Vanguard our friend Nicki Clyne has adopted a new name and look.

    Nicki Clyne used to call herself Clickynine on her private Instagram account.
    Now she calls herself Clickysix.
    She has a new haircut and features a profile picture of her giving the viewer a flirtatious wink.

    Won’t the Vanguard be pleasantly surprised to see Nicki Clyne’s new look just for him?


    123 posts
    368 following
    for fiends + framily
    in the absence of ego, there is only alter

    And here is Nicki Clyne’s new profile pic with a come hither look.

    Way to go, Nicki!

  • This judge is too fucken lenient. He’s a clown.

    First he closes down the whole fucken COURT for 2 whole days just cuz a juror wants to be home for Ramadan?

    Now he tells 2 other jurors they can still go on vacation even though it’s a critical week where the deliberations may be necessary?

    This judge is a PUSSY and doesn’t know how to dictate things to people.

    If I were the judge, this is how shit would be..

    Oh, Ramadan is coming up?

    Too fucken bad. Show up to court.

    Oh, you’ve got family vacations coming up June 23rd?

    So fucken what. Show up to court. Take your family to the park instead.

    That’s how shit gets done. Being a judge means getting away from EXCUSES and bullshit.

    • dont kid yourself THE JUDGE wanted that time off for himself <==NY Court judges dont give two shits about anyone but their connecticut selfish selves

    • DirtyRottenBastard

      Bangkok- Are you still attempting to perform Solo ATM?

  • As always, a big thanks for the quick turn-around on the report.

    One question/clarification: In this article, it says that it was Nancy Salzman who was presenting to Jness and passing on KAR’s disturbing thoughts on rape and underage sex. The previous article said that it was KAR’s voice that was played to the courtroom. Also, the previous article mentioned testimony re: KAR’s thoughts on adults giving children oral sex. Of all of the depravity in this trial, this idea that an adult performing oral sex on a child might be ok in any universe is beyond appalling and sickening. I’m dying to know – was this statement played via an audio w KAR’s actual voice? Or was it Nancy Salzman repeating this filth? I can’t even get my head around this and I’m hoping maybe I misread or misunderstood.

    Thanks again!

  • By 1145 on friday.

  • Steven the questioner

    Interesting Keith’s only known IQ test was done as a take home test [IQ tests are timed, take home IQ tests depend on the test taker to honestly time themselves], his college GPA was 2.26 which is in the C to C+ range and he was placed on academic probation at one point because of his low grades and failing grades in physics. You would think someone who was solving advanced physics problems at age two could manage more than F’s by age 20.

  • In addition to noting that Raniere was once placed on academic probation because of his low grades, Weniger went on to read off some of his grades in specific classes:
    – Advanced Ordinary Differential Equations: F
    – Quantum Mechanics: F
    – Theoretical Physics: F
    – Experimental Physics: D


    More like a freakin idiot.

    When a person starts making absurd claims about being a genius or one of the greatest problem solvers in the world, I think his academic records should immediately become available to the public without hindrance to prevent conmen like VanFakeAss from perpetrating such an absurd claim so obviously discordant with reality.

    I mean FUCKING SERIOUSLY? How in the twenty years that NXIVM was in business NOT ONE investigative journalist took the time to find out this information knowing his claims? I remember practically all of my employers asking me for my college transcripts before I was employed so it wasn’t like this information wasn’t available or unobtainable. I graduated Magna Cum Laude with a 3.95 GPA in Engineering and I never once claimed I was a genius.

    • You have to admit that Raniere was a pretty good problem solver. Even with all of those Fs, he did graduate and with a triple major, all while f*cking several women. Send your transcript to so I can verify it.

    • “I graduated Magna Cum Laude with a 3.95 GPA in Engineering and I never once claimed I was a genius.”

      At my Alma Mater the top Professor on the campus was John Bardeen.
      Never heard of him?
      Bardeen is the only man in History to win two Nobel Prizes in Physics.
      The first Nobel Prize was for co-inventing the semiconductor, work Bardeen did at Bell Labs.
      The second Nobel Prize that Bardeen earned was for work he did on Superconductivity.

      If anyone could claim to be the world’s third smartest man it was John Bardeen.
      And yet many of his neighbors had no idea that Bardeen had won two Nobel Prizes.
      Bardeen never talked about it in ordinary conversations.
      The subject seldom came up.
      Bardeen would have cookouts and barbecues for neighbors and his accomplishments never came up.
      I’ll bet hardly a day went by that the Vanguard failed to mention that he was the world’s third smartest man.

      • That’s awesome, Shadow. Because your professor had class. Something that KAR has never known.

        • You’re right.
          John Bardeen had class.
          His co-invention of semiconductors still affects the world today.
          Every computer and cellphone has some type of semiconductor.
          And after John Bardeen passed away the University of Illinois named the Engineering Quad after him.
          The Bardeen Quad.
          And Keith Raniere has no class at all.

          John Bardeen (/bɑːrˈdiːn/; May 23, 1908 – January 30, 1991)[3] was an American physicist and electrical engineer. He is the only person to be awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics twice:
          In 1990, Bardeen appeared on LIFE Magazine’s list of “100 Most Influential Americans of the Century.”
          Bardeen was a scientist with a very unassuming personality. While he served as a professor for almost 40 years at the University of Illinois, he was best remembered by neighbors for hosting cookouts where he would prepare food for his friends, many of whom were unaware of his accomplishments at the university.

          • Bardeen was a pussy.

            He did not accept that Jesus was real. He did not take Christ into his heart.

            Therefore, he’s probably down below with Satan shoving a pitch fork up his butt.

            I am saved. My admission thru the pearly gates is assured. Jesus loves me.

      • Raniere claimed he was among the three smartest men in the world, which means he could be #1 or 2.

      • Never considered myself smarter than anyone else. I’m a slow reader. Never was born with movie star good looks. Never had anything fall into my lap. Anything I’ve received, I’ve had to work for it. The one thing my parents provided for me was some financial security and a good environment to learn. The one thing I do have maybe a little bit more than others is some grit and persistence when I’m motivated.

        That’s when I see idiots like this leader of the cult get things so easily it pisses me off. How he bedded a bunch of women including some small time celebrities. It makes me sick and says fuck-all to everything.

    • ‘Genius,’ lol.

      The guy was just a small-time conman who had a few poeple to do the smoke and mirrors stuff for him behind the scenes.

      Without them, there would never have been a Vanguard.

      So goodbye Vanguard, hello prisoner 56897655.

    • Nice humblebrag, but Journalists can’t get anyone’s transcripts without the student’s approval.

      • I’m anonymous. It can’t be a humble brag. Duh.

        There are other ways to get a transcript without a student’s approval. I suggested one – go through a former employer. Nevertheless, did any investigative journalist actually ask him to provide them? If they did, and he said no, did they emphasize the idea that his claim doesn’t pass the smell test? Did they ask why he refuses to provide them if he’s a supposed genius? Did anyone ask what rank of class he graduated – Cum Laude, Magna Cum Laude, or Summa Cum Laude? As far as I know those aren’t hidden or private. That’s the only reason I mentioned my ranking and I don’t consider myself a genius at all.

        People dropped the ball. Sorry.

      • You can’t anonymously humblebrag. It doesn’t mean anything.

      • IQ doesn't say anything about your humanity

        But maybe somebody who has been with him a looooooonnnng time and talked to the Feds in exchange for escaping responsibility for her own crimes – maybe she had access to his papers dumped at her place while he was wandering the neighborhood making house calls on a nightly basis. Maybe, she was in some of those classes with him herself and knows first hand what his grades were – pity me pillow talk perhaps?

  • Obsessed with this trial

    I do hope that “justice prevails” in this case but I am not hopeful. With Trump at the helm things have only gotten worse from an already broken and corrupt political & justice system. I’m afraid that may just be an Oxymoron. The power imbalance, the intolorence, and the lack of respect at times is frightening. Facts facts & facts=truth if there truely is justice in the DOJ.

    Why was this man allowed to roam freely for years to harm others and grow his deviancy.

    • What power imbalance? More people have jobs now than in the last 60 years. And how is the justice system any more broken since Trump?

    • “Why was this man allowed to roam freely for years to harm others and grow his deviancy?”

      Because of money.

      One of NXIVM’s inner circle had more than enough money to pay certain people to look the other way.

      • Obsessed with this trial

        Correct Paul! I agree 100%….I guess it was more of a rhetorical statement. I’m still flabbergasted on why some folks are so dumb to fall for his crap, lies, and why would they want to share him. What was the up side? He offered very little in return. Women open your eyes. You deserved better and deserved real empowerment. Someone failed you long ago. You allowed yourself to fall prey. Its not just him, you were in a sick & sordid relationship. It was the perfect storm.

    • STFU about Trump. Raniere was investigated, arrested, and put on trial under the Trump administration. Barry didn’t do squat, he is the one who was responsible for “…this man [being] allowed to roam freely for years to harm others and grow his deviancy.” Go to hell, libtard.

    • Exactly how has the justice system only get worse in the last couple of years? Shit buddy, Raniere ran wild and the Obama DOJ did not do jack shit.To busy spying on everyone else.

      • Sweet Loretta was way too busy having rendevous’ on the tarmac to discuss GOLF AND GRANDCHILDREN and HOLDER well he was running guns thru mexico {NXIVM’s soon to be regrouped new digs} and benghazi <==what difference does it make

        ah the obama years when organ harvesting and child trafficking along with transgendering became really mainstreamed

        dont beleive me in nys you now have to OPT OUT in writing because everyone is considered an organ donor

        YAY Andrew CUOMO knows how to create jobs and convict criminals NDNY is buzzing with his commands especially given his prior stint as AG for NYS to make NYS the JUSTICE CAPITAL of the world

        leadership unicorns but yes trumpbad!

    • What are your dox on trump?

  • I was on a jury just one time — a complicated tax fraud case in federal court with 7 defendants and many dozens of charges. The trial was about as long as this one. What’s weird is that for all that time you’re hanging out with these 11 random people and you have only one thing in common: the case. But you can’t talk about the case while it’s going on. Not to each other, not to your family, not to your friends. You’re just all alone with your notes, trying to make sense of it with no bloggers or podcasts or news stories to give you framing. All you know is what the witnesses said when they were asked whatever they were asked.

    One set of lawyers is telling you a version of a story through the contrived, awkward vehicle of carefully chosen and coached witnesses. The other set is trying to tell you a different version of the same story. The judge will sometimes stop them all in mid-sentence for reasons that aren’t clear. There are long moments when everything stops and the lawyers go up to the judge and whisper to each other. Sometimes, you get sent out of the room if that goes on too long.

    Sometimes, it’s crushingly boring, and you can tell that the person next to you is nodding off. Sometimes, you can’t follow what the witness is trying to say, but you can’t ask them to repeat it or clarify it. Was it important? How could you know? It’s scary because you are either going to send someone to prison or you’re going to let them go. You.

    You have no idea what your fellow jurors are thinking until they lead you back to the room and you all sit down at the big table. That moment is full of surprises. You find out that your fellow jurors didn’t understand things that were said the way you did, or didn’t understand exactly what law got broken, or did understand and just doesn’t like that law. (We had a guy who just didn’t like income taxes and thought it should be legal not to pay them and to hide your income if you had to.) Someone on this jury might be thinking that it’s ugly what Keith did to people who trusted him, but what are you going to do? People have to live with their own stupid choices, and you don’t go to prison for being a gross asshole.

    All of which is to say, we have no clue what those people are going to do.

    • Worst case it’s a split vote and Raniere stays in MDC until the new trial. Chances are the vote will be unanimous on at least one of the counts, which means he is convicted and sentenced until the retrial, if the DOJ decides to do that. If Raniere gets ten or more years, they may walk away.

    • Interesting account, thanks for that.

      What exactly happened in deliberations? Did everyone come around to some sort of consensus, and delivering a verdict – or did the one crank derail deliberations?

  • Well I suppose with her relationship with the Vanguard she did not have to do much to seduce the horny Vanguard.

  • Keith Raniere claims to be a child prodigy at playing the piano and composing music.
    Although no one has ever heard Raniere play the piano.

    Here is a real child prodigy 14 year old Alma Deutscher of Vienna, Austria who has already composed her own music and an opera and will soon perform in Carnegie Hall.
    She is called a female Mozart.
    She was written up in the June 15th New York Times.

    Watch a prodigy create — from four notes in a hat

    • Alma Elizabeth Deutscher (born February 2005) is an English composer, pianist, violinist, and child prodigy. At age six she composed her first piano sonata. At age seven, she completed her first major composition, the opera The Sweeper of Dreams. Aged nine, she wrote a concerto for violin and orchestra, which she premiered in a 2015 performance.[1]

      At the age of ten she completed her first full-length opera, Cinderella, which had its European premiere in Vienna in 2016 under the patronage of conductor Zubin Mehta.[2] Its US premiere a year later was released on DVD by Sony Classical. At the age of twelve, Deutscher also premiered her first piano concerto.[3]

      • I know people who are average piano players and when your standing there next to the piano it sounds superb, to lay people.

        However, if a real musician heard it they would say it sounds like shit.

        I believe Barbara is telling the truth.

        • The question of whether KAR was talented was asked a year ago and someone with much musical experience said he was far from concert-level.
          The reason for Barbara Bouchey crying was because Keith was fingering the keyboard and not her.

    • Shadow,
      “Although no one has ever heard Raniere play the piano.”
      Barbara Bouchey has. She said it “brought tears to her eyes.”
      There was a well loved English comedian, when I was a child, called Les Dawson. He was actually a very talented pianist but during his shows he deliberately played badly.

      • We know Keith was a very good pianist because as a boy he was the state Judo champion.

      • Preil,
        In America we had the comedian Jack Benny who was a decent violin player but deliberately played poorly so that others could make fun of his supposed lack of musical talent.
        And Britain’s Benny Hill took his first name from Jack Benny.
        Here is a video of Jack Benny being shown up on the violin by a 12 year old girl.
        (Please ignore the ad at the 2 minute 20 second mark)

      • I’ve heard him play too. He likes to play Moonlight Sonata. BFD – Most young pianists learn that. Beethoven’s lovely, but any Debussy, any Liszt, any Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Mozart, maybe some Joplin, some jazz in his repertoire? Nope. Moonlight Sonata does not make one a concert level pianist. And many people are brought to tears by their loved ones musical performances – ask any mother of a 6 year old singing with their class on stage. Although I do think Bouchey is full of it.

        His enormous ego and constantly wanting to be acknowledged as best at everything he did is part of the reason I git fed up and left him – I’m sure I’m not the only one.

        • moonlight sonata is about the second major piece {first movement that is} that every beginner who wants to become more serious learns
          first being fir de lis

          {third movement of moonlight sonata is virtueouso caliber and i bet NOT WHAT Vanpussy played to charm the ladies and availble kissing men} just a wild guess

          ps me thinks barbara cries crocodile tears

      • I think I ran across another account of someone who heard Raniere (try to) play – he did after all have that piano in his pad – and said he just sounded like a kid who’d studied piano for a bit.

    • I think Raniere taught her everything she knows, as he was using his brain waves to teach her at from a distance. Good thing he never got his short, stubby fingers and other anatomical parts on her.

    • Keith can write melodies with three notes. Sometimes two


    An instagram post about kristin kreuk and nxivm.

    • I suppose people could buy a colored sash from the resale or Goodwill store for five bucks and that would save paying NXIVM 4000 dollars for a piece of cloth.
      The rules say nothing against that option.

    • Finally, real proof! And from a knowledgeable source.

      • I assume you are being sarcastic saying this is from a “knowledgeable source.” A knowledgeable source would not say that Kristin was recruited by “her husband” and an actual “knowledgeable source” would know Kristin was recruited in 2006 and quit in 2013.

        And if you are the one claiming to be the knowledgeable source, you’re just embarrassing yourself and publicly displaying your lack of research skills.

        @unbearabledeplorable Her husband recruited her. Kristin was hired mostly as a way to attract members. She brought in Mack. Kristin was there from 2008 to 2015. She knows more than she’s saying.

        • The moron was being sarcastic. He is most likely the stalker of Kristin Kreuk “SultanOfSix”. He can’t stand any criticism of this woman.

          Yes Kristin Kreuk joined in 2006. No she did not leave in 2013 like she claims, she continued to coach at least as recently as 2015 in Vancouver.

          Frank Parlato has seen proof that was shared with him, but he has not posted anything about it for some reason.

  • Thank God that KAR didn’t have any daughters.

    • Pyriel,

      Great link post.

      How much do you think Barbara was paid for that appearance including free air fare and lodging?

      Your post is bad news for Shadowstate and awesome news for Allison Mack.

      Now when Allison Mack is released from prison she can trade Comic Cons for Crime Cons.

      If the promoters are shelling out money for Barbara Bouchey, Allison Mack is a no brainer.

      Imagine after all of this Allison Mack comes out with a few pay days?

      “It’s a mixed-up, muddled-up, shook-up world.” Lola Lyrics

      • How will Allison Mack make money from Crime Con?

        Giving demonstrations on how to brand women?
        Selling engraved, autographed cauterizing pens?
        Selling pictures and videos of naked women from her huge collection?

        • Shadowstate,

          It’s called paid appearances in the Biz.

          Tania Harding, Joey Buttafuoco, and Amy Fisher all have been paid to do appearances.

          Amy Fisher actually shot a woman( Mrs Buttafuoco) in the head.

          It’s all very disgusting and all very true.

      • And even if it was true , Once she paid her debt to society, what is wrong with her making money? you sound as extreme and ridiculous as Shadow…
        Change your name because you sound definately like anything but a niceguy.

        So many fruitloops on this website…a psychologist (or even a psychiatrist in some case) could have a lifetime of work over here…

  • ask the Stable Genius.

  • The American society perpetuates this situation. Just take a look at how much attention this website receives, mostly because of the involvement of rich people and celebrities. Only a relatively small handful of people were harmed, while literally millions of new people are being ripped off by other MLM scams every single year with hardly any attention, especially the one that Raniere started his MLM career in, Amway.

  • She has a spooge infection in one eye.

  • I think it could go either way
    The prosecution proved he’s into an alternative lifestyle. That he’s a dick and an asshole. Let’s see if the jury is smart enough to realize that laws were broken.

    I think they’ll find him guilty of some but not all the charges. Not that they’d be able to articulate why but as punishment for being who he is. It’s good they don’t need to but a shame because he can’t be retried for the charges they acquitted him on.
    At the least he’ll remain locked up and hopefully be charged with statutory rape, child porn etc by the state.

    The suspense is terrible. I hope it will last! – Willy Wonka

  • Alex,

    A society ran by people whose ancestors spent more time as hunter gatherers and less time living in organized civilization.

    Most social mammals behave in similar ways.

    Politicians are the best example of your observation Alex.

    Are professional politicians actually the smartest individuals?

  • You know. Its ironic that the “smartest man in the world” is really the one who signed his own demise. Keeping records, photos, recordings of all his evil deeds is pretty much the dumbest thing he could ever do.

    Who knows. Perhaps he’s like a serial killer who wants to be caught.

    Hope the jury makes the right decision and puts him away for life.

  • orangecountydreams - OCD

    The possible repeating of closing arguments for the alternate jurors, should they be needed, does not seem fair. Then the prosecution and the defense get two bites at the apple, and having heard the opposing arguments, will have a chance to clean up any mistakes. Why can’t the alternates sit in on the original closing arguments?

    • The closing arguments will not be repeated (The alternate jurors were there for the original presentations). It’s just the deliberations that start over – i.e., the discussions between and among the 12 people who will decide Vanguard’s fate.

    • Why wouldn’t they just read them the court transcripts ?

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