The Randy Mr. Raniere

In Featured, News, NXIVM

Keith Alan Raniere is on trial and part of the prosecution’s strategy is to show what a perv he is.  Being a perv is not usually illegal if every adult involved consents.

But Raniere is charged with sex trafficking which removes the consent feature. He is also accused of possessing child porn and sexually exploiting a minor.

The prosecution says, “He targeted young girls, selecting some for special attention but this was an excuse. He offered to mentor them to teach them and that was an excuse to groom them for sex.”

And he “took advantage of these young women, emotionally and sexually. The defendant pretended to be a guru but he was a criminal”.

And “He drew in followers that put their trust in him and he used that trust for the things that he wanted: Sex, power and control.”

Among the randy times discussed in court is that Raniere had sex with three sisters from Mexico. They were entrusted to his care and mentorship by their foolish parents.

The oldest was Daniela. He had sex with her a week after her 18th birthday. He was in his 40s then.

They had a sexual relationship, and, while he was having sex with more than 20 other women at the time, he told Daniela that she could not have sex with anyone else. She developed feelings for Nxivm hacker Ben Myers and Raniere, declaring she had an ethical breach, without disclosing what it was to the Nxivm community, ordered her confined to a room for 22 months.

She finally escaped and went back to Mexico.

Raniere had a baby with the middle sister, Mariana. He had a nickname for Mariana – “Monkey”.

She is reportedly living in Monterrey, Mexico with Raniere’s son, Kemar. For years, he lived with Mariana and Pam Cafrtiz ménage a trois in Clifton Park – telling some in the Nxivm community that the women were a gay couple and he merely lived there platonically – as a roommate.

Oddly, Raniere seems to have impregnated Mariana on or about the same day Pam died of cancer. Sadly, he impregnated Pam numerous times, but he always forced her to have an abortion – despite her strong desire to have a child.

The youngest of the three Mexican sisters was Camila. Raniere had a nickname for her too: “Virgin Camila”. But he made sure she wasn’t a virgin for long. He started having sex with Camila when she was 15. He was 45.

Nude photos of her which will be submitted in evidence when she was 15, taken by Raniere, will be hard for the defense to explain away.

Then there was DOS slave, Nicole, an actress in her 30s, who believed she was joining a women’s mentorship group when she joined DOS.  Once in DOS, [with collateral held over her] she was ordered by Allison Mack to meet Raniere. They met in a room where she was blindfolded and Raniere tied her to a table. Then a third person, someone Nicole didn’t know, came into the room and began performing oral sex on Nicole and Nicole felt she couldn’t say no.

That third person, Nicole never found out who she was, but the third person was “Virgin” Camila, now age 26.

We also know that Raniere had sex with a large amount of people. Many of them got abortions. Dozens of abortions in fact, his defense attorney admits.

How many men do you know who had multiple women have dozens of abortions?

Lauren Salzman wanted a baby – in fact Raniere promised her an avatar baby – one that would be a world savior. But somehow he never let her have a baby because the great guru said she wasn’t ready ethically and spiritually to birth the child that would save the planet.

She is 42 now and childless which might be a good thing since she is probably going to prison for her role as a coconspirator in the case.

Raniere told the same thing to Ivy Nevaras – that she would have an avatar baby – a woman who he made diet down to as little as 300 calories per day when she had an ounce or two too much of body fat, and told her not to cut her hair until she healed her ethical breaches. Her hair grew so long that it went past her feet.

She never had a child and was reportedly suicidal when she learned that Mariana had a child in 2017 – when she was promised to have one years ago.

And keeping with Raniere’s class act – his first known child – he forced the mother to tell the Nxivm community that the child was a foundling – an orphan whose mother had died giving him birth and whose father was unknown.

Yes, that’s right – and it may be unique in the world – he not only made the mother deny that he was the father – but forced the mother to deny that her own child was hers, [how often do you hear of a woman having to deny she is a mother] making her pretend the baby was adopted. [You have to know how Raniere operated to understand how he could literally force a woman to lie about her maternity.]

He told her to lie because at the time he was pretending to the community that he was a renunciate, a celibate monk.

Raniere made DOS slave Sylvie take naked pictures of herself and had oral sex with her – while at the same time ordering her not to have sex with her own husband.

During V-Week 2016, Mark Vicente found Raniere in a cabin in bed with a woman with their legs intertwined.  V-Week was an especially randy time for the exalted one.

It was his birthday. Hundreds of people – many of them attractive young women – came and spent $2,000 or more to be in the woods for 10 days, celebrating his nativity at the Silver Bay YMCA.

Clare Bronfman would rent the entire 600 acre campus. The late summer air, the Adirondacks, the pines and the oaks, and beautiful Lake George. And, on his birthday, he climb into his birthday suit and inveigle as many young wood nymphs as he could to do the same.

Then there is his sex lair in Clifton Park – with a bed suspended over a hot tub. Poor Kathy Russell, once part of his harem, was tasked with the job of cleaning the sheets and scrubbing the hot tub.

In a video made in 2012, and shown to the jury in his trial, Raniere is seen at his sex lair, looking at a wedding album and quipping, “Did you notice in one of the crowd shots the woman isn’t wearing panties?”

He was always observant.

He calls women “piggies” and says, “To tease a woman about her odor, to say she’s a fish-hole, it’s official, she’s a fish-hole,” Raniere says on camera.

He would know about that, having performed cunnilingus, it is reported, on 100s of women, all of whom he demanded to not eat garlic.  He switched to this method of sexual activity rather exclusively following his erectile dysfunction that some believe was caused by his contracting virulent herpes.

In the same 2012, video Raniere jokes about people “fucking” sheep and goats.  He says that fucking sheep is alright provided it is your own sheep, which shows a delicacy towards the property of others that some might have thought the rapacious Raniere entirely devoid of.

He also answers a phone call humorously with the words, “Lick me.”

While Raniere belches and gives the finger to the camera, which anyone can do, even an adolescent, when Raniere lies down in the middle of his lair and, referring to his glasses, says,  “If I take my glasses off, I get sleepy or horny”, the impression is clear.

He is an asshole.  For most women who view that – had they ever been forced to be with the cross eyed one, they would pray like hell he was sleepy.

He claims there is a great esoteric meaning to his behavior.  Nancy Salzman told Vicente that there’s a path to enlightenment through sexuality and Raniere understands this path.

We are only starting day five of the trial and Raniere is looking less and less like a guru and more like a horny little perv. His problem is worse. He is also accused of being a child perv and sex trafficker and despite his performance on camera, there is hardly anything funny about that.

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53 commentsOn The Randy Mr. Raniere

  • Trichomoniasis signs and symptoms for women include:
    An often foul-smelling vaginal discharge – which might be white, gray, yellow or green.
    Genital redness, burning and itching.
    Pain with urination or sexual intercourse. “Fish hole”

  • orangecountydreams - OCD

    His behavior is despicable. But how are they going to link it to illegal acts? When will the money trail be discussed?

    • The trial just got started.

    • “His behavior is despicable. But how are they going to link it to illegal acts?”

      Raniere is reprehensible and sadly most of his acts were committed with consenting adults.

      ” When will the money trail be discussed?”
      I believe if the money trail leads to prominent politicians, the prosecutions will quickly end.

      • Do you really think they’re just going to stop the trial if this happens? Wouldn’t it have made more sense not to start it at all?

        • Raniere’s trial will not end.
          Raniere is toast.
          But future prosecutions will stop.

          Does anyone believe the DOJ will delve into the relationship between Senator Gillibrand and NXIVM?

          • nys didnt bother these folks with their illicite behavior for years SILLYBLAND is toast but no LATTICA JAMES our pos ag will only go afterTRUMP <===so unless she is looking into the STORMY DANIELS end of nxivm no this will all crash down on Vanreguardless and the enterprise much like the hrc franchise will rear its ugly head again unscathed in Mexico business as usual and political favors rolling on <==mho sadly until the vipers running nys are all put in jail we are stuck in this insanity child trafficking trap

        • Krclaviger,

          How dare you question Shadowstate. Have you know shame?

      • Blackmail (collateral) is not consent.

  • I really hope the jury sees him for what he is. I hope they are disgusted to the point of nausea. I know I am, and I’m not even there to hear it all first hand. It still baffles me that women wanted to be with him. Cross eyed, smelly, shirt, fat, little turd. It should have been obvious to everyone what a rotten person he is.

  • If the truth be told since Keith likes kids, it is probably the reason why he wanted these women to be scrawny. Obviously their body would remind him of a teen & not a woman.

  • Imagine yourself believing this is true: “…the great guru said she wasn’t ready ethically and spiritually to birth the child that would save the planet.” I read Miss Salzman attended and even matriculated from a university. Pathetic. And sad.

  • Re: the “fish hole diagnosis”: He is debasing women as though men can’t have equivalent health issues, surely not those allergic to corporal hygiene though! How satanically clinical!

  • Raniere's Sinning Sisterhood

    Not all of Raniere’s “Sisterhood” of women are victims.

    Some are, but those who were with him for years, some decades like Pam Cafritz – who was his main pimp, Barbara Jesse, Lauren and Nancy Salzman, Barbara Bouchey, Karen Unterreiner, Clare and Sara Bronfman, Allison Mack, Nicki Clyne etc all upheld him as a noble, ethical, world humanitarian.

    They were his front line cheerleaders leading the charge for their Grandmaster. They worked hard selling a bag of shit knowing full well Keith Raniere was nothing but a conman.

    These women lied to the NXIVM community about who Keith Raniere was with full knowledge he was manipulating women for sex, losing mass amounts of clients money in scams, and or doing illegal activities.

    If they had been truthful from the moment they discovered his con game, thousands could of been saved from the torture Raniere put people through.

    • Mmmh a little research could be useful there…
      First off, some didn’t have the choice, Vicente explained that if you didn’t praise Raniere enough, you were punished.
      Allison, Nicky, and most victims didn’t have many choices (Allison rarely praised him compared to the amount of post she was doing…Same with Nicky (actually, even less for Nicky))

      You are ridiculous for the “leading the charge” most of those cited didn’t had anything to do with it…

      “thousands could have been saved from the torture Raniere put people through”…

      If it’s psychological torture, it’s not really thousand (he wasn’t in contact with the vast majority of the nxians (as many have explained)) and physically, we are far from that number.
      But one is already too much.

  • Double Anonymous

    I don’t like trial by character assassination. Anyone can be smeared because everyone has some kind of dirty laundry.

    So, I’m reluctant to judge Raniere solely on the basis of what’s been delivered so far. I prefer hard criminal facts. Remember, some of these charges (sex trafficking etc.) need to show intent to commit a crime. Let’s stay focused on facts versus assassinating a guy who is already disliked by almost everyone on this site to begin with.

    • The “character assassination” is just the backdrop. Stand by for the hard evidence.

    • You don’t mind seeing Allison Mack character assasinated down to her alleged cankles but you’re offended by what’s said here about the grandmaster pedophile sex slaver himself?

      How’d your last SOP – Society of Pricks – meeting go, Double Anonymous?

      • Double Anonymous

        I think you have me confused with someone else. The only negative comments concerning Mack related to her naivete or stupidity for joining Nx. Furthermore, I’ve never made a comment about her appearance.

        • I was referencing Shadow and Scott Johnson’s constant, inappropriate misogynistic and often false remarks re: Allison Mack in particular and the rest of the female population in general.

          Why do you suddenly oppose the “character assasination” of KAR but not that of his female acolytes?

          I’m curious.

          • Double Anonymous


            It’s simple. I’ve never suffered like you’ve suffered. I’ve never lost anyone really, really close to me via suicide. And, I’ve never had a loved one in a cult either. However, I do understand the pain of deep loss that leaves one empty.

            Long story short: I believe everyone deserves a fair trial. And, I believe in leading a clean life: living honestly and treating everyone with respect. However, if I’d lost a sister the way you lost your sister I might feel differently about the fair trial part!

            So, forgive me for my naivate. Sometimes, it’s hard to digest all the anger that gets expressed on this site. I know you are on the right path but it’s hard listening to all the anger sometimes.


    • Given that the Defense is basing its case on showing Raniere’s “good faith”, I’d say that the video shown in court showing him drop the mask and be the randy sleazeball that he is is very germane to the criminal trial and to getting at the simple truth. Rainiere was acting in bad faith. He was not a guru helping people to make a better world, he was a fraud deliberately misleading people for his own advantage.

      It’s important to establish motive. His motive was to get power and pussy. He did this by coercion. This is what is coming out at trial. The prosecution is carefully and thoroughly building its case. It is establishing a pattern. It is showing how the enterprise was structured. This is essential to proving NXIVM is a corrupt and criminal organization, i.e., a racket. And that Raniere is a racketeer.

    • No honour amongst thieves

      You talk like you’re still in fairly deep. Mind you, IMO, you always did. Unfortunately for you cult members, you don’t get to use general terms like ‘anyone’ – that’s for us majority non-cult members. You belong to a very select minority. Your values only make sense within your cult.

  • Love the title on this piece – the riff on the film “The talented Mr. Ripley.”

  • I wonder why there were so many abortions? They seem mostly educated young women who presumably would use contraception, not in a cult that requires them to have a baby a year for 20 years and bans contraception surely?

    • Raniere prohibited birth control, he didn’t want anything interfering with his “pure” sexual experience. Besides, pro-abortion folks don’t care, it’s just a glob of tissue.

      • Did you have something you’d like to share about your unique sexual experiences with Keith Alan Raniere, Schlock – bc that’s the first I’ve ever heard anything close to that.

        Did you get it from Ben Szemeckus? Your own pedophilic desire for “purity” or maybe it’s just more of your pure bullshit!

        Stick to foot fucking, asshole.

        • Your aggressiveness is inappropriate. You attack when there is no threat to you. What is causing you to be so hostile?

          • There is a history on this site. IMO Heidi is warranted in any attacks she wants. She’s taken enough on the chin to fight back if that 3rd glass of wine starts talking to her.

          • Scott Johnson’s misinformation stated as fact is a threat to the truth and to truth-seekers.

            It was Scott who riled Frank up about Ben Szemuckus’ “game changer” bullshit and I know bc I was there during one of their phone conversations about it. Scott, now, however makes fun of Frank for ever posting the stories Scott INSISTED were credible.

            He also has and does continue to attack me w/o provocation as well as some very key people here who have had to undeservedly, sadly remain anonymous bc of Scott – bc his personal attacks on those people are a distraction to the discovery of the truth as much as his fallacies.

            There is also a danger that opinion stated as fact – when it is untrue – can cause real legal problems. Scott does not seem to care one whit about that probably because he is broke anyway, it’s FR who would have to pay if it came to that – while Schlock would enjoy basking in any publicity that a slander suit might bring to himself without taking any risk.

            Scott needs to be kept on a short chain.

          • Heidi is lying about the Ben conversations, assuming she is even telling the truth about listening in on the call. I would expect Frank to have the courtesy to indicate she was on the call.

            Frank and I had two conversations about Ben’s story, the original one when I told him about it and other months later, around the time of his lie detector test, if my memory is accurate. In both cases, I never claimed the story was true, just that it would be useful to see if anyone else stepped forward to verify it happened. In fact, during the second call, I stated that if I had to bet on whether the story was true or not, I would bet against it. However, it is stupid to merely discard and reject the story. If the story isn’t true, then what’s the downside, compared to the upside if it is true? I also came across another guy who also claimed his girlfriend was approached at Yale by NXIVM, and another college somewhere in/near NYC.

            Heidi is also lying about me making fun of Frank for publishing Ben’s stories. I have never done that. Heidi is a liar.

            People like Heidi are so weak that they interpret questions as “attacks.” That’s not my problem.

            Heidi has been threatening me with lawsuits for months. She’s all talk, no action. I would relish doing discovery on her. LOL

    • I repeat myself from weeks ago but I can answer that for you in gory detail, Jane.

      Raniere’s psycho, narcissistic ego was satiated by impregnating the girls. He didn’t want them on birth control bc the pregnancies affirmed his superior level of potency.

      He boasted of having a high “potency quotient” to match his high intelligence quotient – his swimmers were, of course, far superior to the average sack of sperm.

      It was also a sort of test for the girls – of their potency or worthiness to conceive the Avatar baby when [or, as IF] the time came and the girl was cured of her disintegrations, had proved herself the ONE.

      Keith also always had Gina’s health in mind. Birth control, like shaving one’s pubes, was an unhealthy practice. Gina was very self-conscious about her ample bush that sprouted rather early in her adolescence but, thanks to Keith, she was excused from taking measures to whack it. In fact, as Keith explained to me on a occasion – Gina’s early development of ample pubic hair was another sign of her agelessness as the Buddhist goddess reincarnate, Samayatara.

      I distinctly recall when my deceased sister, Gina, aka Samayatara, lectured me on the perils of shaving and of using birth control. I agreed the pill was a potential health risk but a diaphragm seemed innocuous. She consulted her master – KAR, not only a genius but reincarnated Buddhist God at the time – who fretted over the diaphragm’s potential for bacterial entrapment along with the horror of chemical exposure of the sperm-killer cream to his precious swim champions.

      I hope this answers your query, Jane, and hope it helps resolve the mystery of Keith’s preference for bushiness even while seeming to prefer prepubescent children, if there is any additional question as to that. It certainly is all a control trip on KAR’s part to fuel his sadistic grand delusions of superior beingness. He used what worked on Gina and, apparently, others after her. I pray none of you end up in the same place.

      • Heidi’s observations/comments on Keith Raniere should be collected…

        I wish I had collected Heidi’s observations in the comments section of Keith Raniere over . She has first hand knowledge of Keith Raniere early on before even Price Line or ESP.

        It’s darkly interesting. Keith Raniere started out with these grand imaginary pronouncements and over time gained a knack at getting people to believe.

        Heidi’s descriptions of early Keith Raniere paint a picture of a nerdy goof ball.

        It’s similar to early Hitler the starving artist. It’s hard to imagine someone being something of a goof ball and then becoming a evil leader that would go to cause so much pain and suffering.

    • Raniere clearly did not use condoms.

      It’s been reported I believe that he was a carrier of Human Papilloma Virus.

      Scott’s right: Raniere only cared about his pleasure.

  • In college Keith Raniere studied Animal Husbandry until they caught him at it.

  • “… Once in DOS [with collateral held over her], she was ordered by Allison Mack to meet Raniere…” “…Lauren Salzman wanted a baby – in fact, Raniere promised her an avatar baby – …”

    Frank, care to explain why (even after the first testimony shows that Lauren was WAY MORE implicated (including receiving financial return, being a trustee and executive), you still have sympathy for her but you systematically try to turn Allison in the worst way?

    Reminder, Allison was not giving orders, she was Following them (Under coercion of her collateral) as the victim…
    Lauren, on the other hand, was said to be one of the decision makers (with her mother).

    Lauren was doing it willingly (as far as we know), not Allison (collateral? why collateral if she was willingly doing it? I remind, once again, that it’s one of the argument the prosecution try to show to prove it wasn’t consented).

    And it’s not Lauren that Raniere tried to break…She was trusted by him.

    If you Wonder how you should have put it, sticking by the facts, “she was told by Allison Mack to meet Raniere”

    • I don’t think Frank has sympathy for any of these crooks, the heat on Mack came from Mr. Shadow, not Frank. Frank merely published submitted stories about Mack. You could have done the same thing with Salzman, and Frank would have published your stories, but you didn’t do that, did you? You wanted Frank to do your dirty work about Salzman, and he’s already done much more than anyone else. Face the facts, you’re just too lazy.

      • It not quite obvious when you see the amount of time he repeats how poor Lauren wanted a baby from Raniere but didn’t got it.
        He seems to be quite sympathetic to her. And seeing how many stories from Shadowclown he published…it’s hard to Believe that.

        And contrary to shadow, I don’t have an obsession against Salzman, I just point the fact that she and her mother were seriously implicated…
        Frank avoids the subject and prefers to concentrate on his interpretation of the story against Mack.
        It’s not being lazy, it’s just not my work scott…i’m not the one who made a blog against the Nxivm…If he is so much against Nxivm, he might need to aim to those who were really in power (and Allison is not amongst them).

        • I think Frank is rubbing salt in the wound about Lauren having Raniere’s child. After all, which normal person would want to have his child, let alone f*ck him? What normal woman would be willing to fritter away her limited years of being capable of having a baby with any man, let alone Raniere?

          All of them, and many others, were seriously implicated, their pleas depended on how much evidence the Feds have, not how many words are written on this website. You are placing much too high of a priority on what this website can accomplish.

          I don’t see Frank avoiding anything, he’s written a lot about the Salzmans. Both already made deals with the Feds. The NDNY charges still exist and whatever state and civil cases that may spring up.

          If it’s not your blog, then don’t tell someone how to run theirs. As Frank told me just over a year ago when we first talked on the phone, NXIVM is essentially over, as Raniere had just been arrested and the Feds were obviously taking over. He told me he was looking for another challenge and thought that Amway and other MLM scams could be an interesting next project for him.

          • “All of them, and many others, were seriously implicated, their pleas depended on how much evidence the Feds have…”
            I’ll say that it’s not really true as the testimonies (up until now) show that the Salzmans had WAY more stuff on their files but the feds didn’t used them…but it wasn’t the subject.

            “If it’s not your blog, then don’t tell someone how to run theirs”
            Fair enough.

          • It’s almost always a balancing act. If the DOJ thinks they need a little more than they have to nail the person at the top beyond a reasonable doubt, in this case Raniere, then they are usually willing to give the 2nd level people plea deals. People who can think only in terms of all or nothing or black and white simply don’t understand how things really work.

    • Mack was doing both, following orders and giving orders – that’s why there are questions as to how much she was a victim, and how much she was a perpetrator.

      And Mack was somehow selected for the role as chief mistress of DOS – over others, like Lauren Salzman. That raises further questions regarding what about her, suited her for the role that she eventually embraced publicly in her interview.

      If you want to follow the logic of victimization that I believe you’ve used before sometimes, Salzman was more of a hapless vicitm. She virtually grew up in NXIVM, with even her mother egging her on, and knew nothing else.

      In contrast, Mack started out as an outsider, and was reportedly warned about NXIVM by people close to her, as well as by readers of her blog when some of the ugly truth about Raniere started to be revealed. She stayed as first the NXIVM 9 defected and the Times Union series came out, and then various of her friends from Kreuk (probably heeding good advice) to Edmondson realized that things were rotten and left. At best she was somehow particularly weak, and lacking a moral compass.

      • Keep your hatred for someone else, low life…arguing with you is like arguing with garbage.

        The trial shows exactly the opposite of what you were trying to prove but Vicente knows nothing about Allison (just like I Don’t)…Only you, a no-lifer who reads fake interviews know everything.

        Get a life

        The Prosecution already proved she was not a leader, she was Following orders …Lauren, on the other hand, was in everything and was an executive + a trusted person by Raniere
        The only Reason Raniere put Allison’s name on everything is to blame her in case it goes down.

        Vicente said CLEARLY that Raniere didn’t trust nor like Allison…Anything you said or will say won’t change the fact.
        Continue to Believe your lies while others read the TRUTH.

        Even when it’s in court, you prefer to Believe the BS theory against Allison…Tell me you are not obsessed about Breaking Allison so I can laugh about it.

        “If you want to follow the logic of victimization that I believe you’ve used before sometimes, Salzman was more of a hapless victim…”
        This shows how blindfolded you are…Testimonies demonstrated that she was anything but a victim.
        Clare, on the other hand, could have been a good example. but not against Allison.
        Vicente said that Raniere tried to BREAK Allison, Something he didn’t try with others.

  • Bochelerov Boozinky

    I’m pessimistic and cheap. I doubt I’d ever fall for these types of scams, where people dole out large sums of cash to be enlightened. Sounds similar (without the sex part) to Scientology and the large fees one pays for knowledge?

    By the way, has anyone ever proven, or disproven KR’s existance in the Guiness Book of World Records?
    One thing is for sure, he must be very gregarious and have a convincing personality. Likely believing his own story that he is the second coming of Christ or some other hocus pokus nonsense.

    Of course, I wouldn’t be a target to begin with, I presume you’d need to be very well off to be a part of the clan of wankers.

    • It does take a lot of money and NXIVM is based on Scientology, as well as Amway, which Raniere was a member of before he started his own MLM scam, called Consumers’ Buyline, which was shut down. The Guiness record was apparently from the Australian edition years ago, but Raniere was discredited because he cheated. Raniere had lots of help from others to build him up, mostly women.

      • Double Anonymous

        It is not possible to measure who the smartest person in the world is. There is no such measure as life is complex, diverse, constantly changing requiring continual adaption and multi-faceted requiring different kinds of intelligence in different situations. An IQ test is static, culture dependent and does not demonstrate one can master real life situations. It simply requires solving a series of problems and puzzles that may not apply to other situations. Scoring high does not mean you can find a cure for cancer or even hold a job!

        Only people insecure about their own intelligence or impressed by pseudo-claims or needing a strong authoritarian father figure (Bronfmans, Mack, Hollywood starlets, Mexi-Nexians coming from a culture of corruption) would fall for Raniere’s claim.

        • The above comments didn’t bring up the issue of what the meaning of the smartest in the world is, you did. A lot of corporate executives and other people also believed Raniere’s claim, or at least didn’t care enough to not take a class or two if they didn’t believe the claim. I don’t know why you get so bent out of shape about this issue.

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